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Re: Guide to Management Consulting Recruiting [#permalink]
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aceman626 wrote:
great post rhyme, thanks.

I am surprised that based on your knowledge of the process and coming from chicago gsb, that you didn't get a big 3 offer tho. Then that means it would be even harder for us from lower ranked schools?

Just curious, did you have previous consulting experience? Also, which office did you apply to and would that make a difference? Lastly, what did you think was the reason you didn't get an offer?


1. No, I dont think its harder from lower ranked schools. The thing to remember is this: for round 1 you have to compete against your peers, for round 2, you compete against the world. That said, at that point, no one cares whether you are from Harvard or Cornell or Duke or whatever. You have to do well on the case.

2. I had previous consulting experience. I stuck strictly to the Chicago offices. Without a doubt, that impacts your odds. There are some top offices that are more in demand - chicago, san fran, NY are almost always top choices. Few people list Dallas or Atlanta as their top choice, and at least with the top 3, you interview by office (meaning that if you chose Dallas, then Dallas guys interview you, separately from the Chicago office). To give you an idea, McK interviewed 8 people for Dallas, and although I don't know the exact number, I'd venture they interviewed probably somewhere close to 30 or 40 for Chicago. The odds matter.

3. As to why I didn't end up with an offer from the big 3 -- I'd say it was partly my competition and partly (bad) luck.

I had a really strange and confusing case that I couldn't crack with one of the top 3 and it killed me. Had to do with government policies to combat unemployment in a fictitious country - it was truly baffling and I didn't do well. I nailed the crap out of the cases with another firm but I ended up interviewing with a partner with whom I totally didn't get along, and the interview ended poorly. That was that. In the last case, the firm pretty much told me they had a really hard time making a choice and struggled at length to pick between myself and another candidate, in the end, they picked the other guy. (which honestly, I was flattered they'd even consider me a competitor to him, he's !@(# brilliant). In the end, I can attribute some of the failure to my lackluster-interest (I dont really wanna do MC anyway) and some of it to bad luck.

The long and short of it is this -- you can practice all you like, at the end of the day, if you get a case you nail, great, if you don't oops, if you get along with the interviewer, yay, if not, oops, and sometimes, as in my final situation, its just a question of a little bad luck and some stiff competition. Anyone going to any of the consulting firms, I would imagine, would agree with me that luck is (rightly or not) a fairly big factor.
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Re: Guide to Management Consulting Recruiting [#permalink]
Thanks Rhyme. This is extremely valuable to me since I am already filling out some pre-matriculation applications to consulting firms and I have been wondering what the interview will be like (if I get selected). I know this took up a significant amount of time and we appreciate you here on GMATClub. Kudos!
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Re: Guide to Management Consulting Recruiting [#permalink]
Awesome post rhyme. +10 kudos!
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Re: Guide to Management Consulting Recruiting [#permalink]
rhyme, i would have given more kudos if I could :) Thanks for this post!
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Re: Guide to Management Consulting Recruiting [#permalink]
Outstanding post ... for those interested in more case prep resources ... drop me a line. I have a ton of stuff I am happy to share.

Rhyme - thanks for the insight ... one question for you though.

Did folks with previous MC experience with non McK/BCG/Bain firms get offers from the top 3 places?
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Re: Guide to Management Consulting Recruiting [#permalink]
Great post Rhyme. Kudos!
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Re: Guide to Management Consulting Recruiting [#permalink]
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From another thread:

Quote:
"rhyme, could you give an overview of strengths and weaknesses of the top MC companies, namely: McKinsey, BCG, Bain, ATKearney, Booz Allen Hamilton from the point of view of the student who gained lots of info about those companies beyond the one offered by Vault :) ?"


I'm a bit cynical here... In my opinion they are all basically the same, and I think that most people will tell you the same. Honestly, the work the Bain is going to do is gonna be the same as the work McK is going to do -- and to a large extent, thats going to be true for Bain vs Booz or almost any other firm. They all like to tell you that the work is somehow different - "we pick clients, they dont pick us" or some other such crap, but I've been on projects where I was replacing the McK team because they got kicked off for nonperformance -- and I never worked at a firm with the prestige of McK. The work, quite honestly, is going to be awful similar.

All that really differs is fit... some seem more laid back (Bain) than others (McK). Some seem a bit more intellectually rigorous (BCG) while others seem very collegial and entrepreneurial (Kearney)...

In the end though, its a lot like picking a grad school. Sure hte GSB will tell you that its different, and in some ways it maybe is, but I'm not learning anything substantially different at the GSB that someone at Cornell won't. Accounting is accounting. The 3Cs are the 3Cs. CAPM holds in Chicago as well as in Ithaca. In short, the 'work' is the same. All thats different is the culture. Same is largely true for consulting firms.

Quote:
Is the compensation equal at all the top companies and if it's different, how big is the margin?


Far as I know, its basically the same.

Quote:
What is the required language proficiency for working at international offices?


A tough question for me, as I didn't bother with international offices so it never came up -- but in general, I'd say that you have to be reasonably fluent - after all, they have to be able to put you in front of a client at some point. If you are struggling to conjugate a verb or something, odds are you wont do well in a presentation. That said, some offices are probably a bit more lax about it - I hear McK Brazil has even hired people with no language skills in the past - although they expect you to learn it. The short answer is: I don't really know, but I'll ask around.

Quote:
I'm interested in the supply chain, international manufacturing placement, operations, optimization of business processes. Industries of interest - automotive and high-tech, they are getting tied with each other nowadays. For the present moment I feel that the closest companies to my goals are McKinsey and ATKearney, locations - Detroit and Cleveland (?), Canada/Toronto, Moscow, Milan (have to think about this one). What do you think about the choices?"


I've always thought Supply chain and operations stuff was kind of boring, and the automotive industry is a razor-thin margin industry thats under a lot of duress, so I stayed away from those too. So.... I really don't know -- but certainly, yes, Detroit is the "mega car hub" of the US.

That said, given what you want to do though, you might want to look at PRTM - I'm pretty sure they specialize in supply chain and the like. Kearney is certainly a good fit for that kind of work too, and for what its worth, the guys I met at Kearney were all really nice.
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Re: Guide to Management Consulting Recruiting [#permalink]
sm332 wrote:
Did folks with previous MC experience with non McK/BCG/Bain firms get offers from the top 3 places?


Correlation(Previous MC Experience, Big 3 Offer) = 0

Really - its all over the board.
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Re: Guide to Management Consulting Recruiting [#permalink]
ok I am glad that at least there isnt a negative correlation!! :-D

I had heard something along the lines of ... if you worked at DT/EY/KPMG/PwC then you have no shot at Big 3 post MBA. They dont want to retrain you ... so that is encouraging from my perspective!


rhyme wrote:
sm332 wrote:
Did folks with previous MC experience with non McK/BCG/Bain firms get offers from the top 3 places?


Correlation(Previous MC Experience, Big 3 Offer) = 0

Really - its all over the board.
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Re: Guide to Management Consulting Recruiting [#permalink]
That's one gem of a post Rhyme :ninja ...Kudos!
I look forward to reading follow-up posts on MC schmoozing and such...

I still wonder how you manage to get so much done in a single day...now that GTA is taking up "some" of your time.
Maybe you should top it all with a guide to time mgmt when in school.... :lol:
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Re: Guide to Management Consulting Recruiting [#permalink]
rhyme wrote:
I've always thought Supply chain and operations stuff was kind of boring, and the automotive industry is a razor-thin margin industry thats under a lot of duress, so I stayed away from those too. So.... I really don't know -- but certainly, yes, Detroit is the "mega car hub" of the US.

That said, given what you want to do though, you might want to look at PRTM - I'm pretty sure they specialize in supply chain and the like. Kearney is certainly a good fit for that kind of work too, and for what its worth, the guys I met at Kearney were all really nice.

rhyme, thanks for the advice! If it's not a secret, what are the industries you're interested in?
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R.E.D. wrote:
rhyme wrote:
I've always thought Supply chain and operations stuff was kind of boring, and the automotive industry is a razor-thin margin industry thats under a lot of duress, so I stayed away from those too. So.... I really don't know -- but certainly, yes, Detroit is the "mega car hub" of the US.

That said, given what you want to do though, you might want to look at PRTM - I'm pretty sure they specialize in supply chain and the like. Kearney is certainly a good fit for that kind of work too, and for what its worth, the guys I met at Kearney were all really nice.

rhyme, thanks for the advice! If it's not a secret, what are the industries you're interested in?


I actually find "finance" an interesting industry (by which I mean banks, VC, PE, etc). That doesn't mean I want to be a banker - but I've always found them pretty dynamic and fast moving.... but whatever that doesn't matter - if supply chain is interesting to you - then go do supply chain stuff.

The one thing that I haven't talked about yet thats probably worth talking about is that its really really really easy to get "sucked in" by the herd. Everyone and their mother will have an opinion on whether or not you should be recruiting for X or for Y or for Z. Your friends will speak of how amazing X industry is or how attractive Y is... its hard not to be distracted by it and its very very easy to get sucked in. In a sense, I'm surprised no one has asked me why the heck I was even recruiting for consulting.... but then again, maybe not all of you remember me from last year or were here to listen to my frequent rants about how overrated and crappy consulting really is (in my opinion).

How did it happen? I just got sucked in - it seemed like a good backup plan. It seemed like it was a worthwhile and achievable goal that could be a backup to what I really wanted to do (which barring VC/PE which I had dismissed as impossible, was corporate strategy). So, there I was, over winter break, reading up on boring and meaningless frameworks and tidbits about X or Y, and memorizing utterly mind numbingly stupid figures like the fact that there are 17M new cars introduced each year - or the population of the US, or that of india, china or asia in general.

Only when an offer actually came through did I realize just how much I really didn't want it anyway. It didn't matter that the offer wasn't a big 3 -- I don't think I would have felt differently if I had ended up with a big 3 - I just dreaded the idea of going back to that industry -- and yet, somehow I lost sight of that. I can't help but wonder - would I have landed that Barclay's London gig if I had invested time into that instead of this? Would I have landed that Google job? How about that awesome general management program with DOW? Maybe, maybe not - but certainly, if not that - I could have used that time and effort to make more friends, meet more professors, explore more things ... almost anything would have been a better use of the time than what I did do: invest it into something that I truly didn't want anyway.

The point I guess is this - and I'm kind of beating a dead horse, I know -- but your question about what industries I was interested in reminded me a lot of the kind of kind of "dangerous questions" that can stray you at business school. Stay true to your interests. You are going to hear a lot of "advice" about how PE is overheated, or consulting is going to be in trouble next year so you should do banking, or how banking is in trouble now so you should do consulting, or how company X sucks or company Y rocks or industry Z is the wrong industry or why you have to be in London and not Prague.... and everything inbetween.

If I could go back 1 year - I'd write down 10 things I care about in a firm and in a job and I'd print that list out and post it to my door. I'd write down the top 10 firms I think Im interested in and the top 3 job functions and post that right next to it -- and everytime I strayed from that path, I'd force myself to look at that list and go back to it.

Anyway, dead horse. Beaten.
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Re: Guide to Management Consulting Recruiting [#permalink]
Good stuff. Kudos!

When i saw that museum question, the first thing i though about was the Japanese way of doing things.. Organised routes and tours... Don't give the customers an option to pick their path.. Lead them round in a single specific pathway :-D
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togafoot wrote:
Good stuff. Kudos!

When i saw that museum question, the first thing i though about was the Japanese way of doing things.. Organised routes and tours... Don't give the customers an option to pick their path.. Lead them round in a single specific pathway :-D


You probably would have solved it that way :)
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rhyme, another great post! Shall keep in mind your advice not to let new opportunities/argumentations get me off the chosen track :) Recall a story of my friend who came to Ross and took a concentration in international business, while all his mates totally disagreed with his choice, because the international market was down a bit (2003), nobody saw any career opportunities in this field. But he was telling this story while sitting at a Russian cafe having come for iMAP project. Then, he had a great internship in MC traveling around the world and then spent a year on fabulous international projects. So, that's really true - when you know what you love most in your life, you'll have opportunities to do this.
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Re: Guide to Management Consulting Recruiting [#permalink]
came across these on BW...thought it was interesting, although I dunno how genuine the numbers being quoted are..

The guy claims to be a Mck employee...
https://forums.businessweek.com/n/pfx/fo ... &tid=75913
https://forums.businessweek.com/n/pfx/fo ... &tid=75785

Comments?....Rhyme...others?
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Re: Guide to Management Consulting Recruiting [#permalink]
Well he is quoting the % of grads who end up in MBB out of the grads who end up in consulting. This is pretty accurate I think.

I have no idea about the second piece.


kk.iyer wrote:
came across these on BW...thought it was interesting, although I dunno how genuine the numbers being quoted are..

The guy claims to be a Mck employee...
https://forums.businessweek.com/n/pfx/fo ... &tid=75913
https://forums.businessweek.com/n/pfx/fo ... &tid=75785

Comments?....Rhyme...others?
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