djhouse81 wrote:
Just keep on building the empire of standardized test forums.
My take on this (and this is not a complaint because I will be going through this process a year from now) is if you can say that you got a 1540, 760, 3.9, and worked at a bulge-bracket i-bank or consulting firm then not only are you very intelligent but when you Google DEDICATED your name comes up at the top. IB's and MC's want ultra-smart, hard-working people and those kinds of stats undeniably show that. That does not mean that without those stats you are not hard-working or intelligent, but you will be more pressed to prove so in the five rounds of interviews if you are so inclined to get to that point.
Rhyme, any thoughts? Pelihu, I think you might have weighed in on this before?
I posted something about this on the B-school life forum. I've met with all of the top 15-20 investment banks this fall, I can say for certain that some will look very closely at test scores. Every firm is different of course; and in fact I think the recruiting strategy probably differs based on the recruiting team (in other words, my experiences reflect the Darden recruiting teams). All of the big firms have dedicated recruiting teams for each of their target schools.
There are some firms that really value schmoozing and personal interaction. Some firms stated that they will not give offers to people that they don't know (in other words, they will not make offers to those that secure interviews through bidding). Other firms say things like "we recruit high horsepower individuals" or "we like to put the best athletes on the field". In short, this means that they will put a lot of weight on GMAT and other test scores. Still other firms seems to really prize past IB experience, or blue chip undergrads.
For those of you wondering if GMAT is important, I have a little story. Career services brought in an outside consultant (well-known apparently) to give us some advice on recruiting. This person conducted a mock interview with a second year student here (going back to a top IB) and grilled him on his 680 GMAT score - literally stating that it was really low and questioning his ability. There's no doubt that some banks will do that.
I just finished submitting my IB applications and some of the European banks actually ask for high school grades and results. I think this is a difference in educational systems, because Goldman had the same section but said that US applications didn't need to fill it out, but I thought that was really strange.
I can feel this question coming on, so I'll try to list the factors that matter most in IB recruiting. I'll try to list them in order, but as I mentioned above, firms have different criteria, and some firms will care a lot about certain things and not at all about other things. Ok, here goes:
1) Reputation of your business school - if a firm doesn't recruit on-campus at your school you have to win a lottery to get a job. A great way to look at this is to check out campus recruiting schedules that are posted to many firm websites; here's JP Morgan's, which I was just looking at:
https://usibcareers.jpmorgan.com/content ... spx#events Click on MBA, and then look through the various schools. Some schools just have "resume drop" which means the firm does not recruit on campus; and it's important to note that this resume drop is
after offers have been handed out at target schools. You can also see, for example, that they only recruit at UCLA for private banking and not investment banking, but they have really full recruitment schedules at places like Cornell, Columbia, Tuck (and Darden
). I know that consulting firms maintain school-specific pages for their target schools (don't know if you need to be a student to see these), but you can really get an idea of how heavily they recruit at various schools. But the bottom line is that it really helps (a world of difference) if you attend a core/target school.
2) Schmoozing/Networking ability. If you attend a firm's target school, you will get the opportunity to meet with them at a firm presentation and possibly an open-invite reception or cocktail hour. If you are good a schmoozing, you can really help your own cause; if you are not good at it and/or you are a jackass, you can torpedo your chances. People great at networking make themselves remembers (in a good way) without being pushy or dominating someone's time. They send effective thank-you notes, and have a good sense of when to pick up the phone and when to just let things ride. It's a fine line between memorable and pushy boor, and good networkers know how to do this.
This category also includes manners and etiquette (maybe should be another category altogether). Table manners are really important, and some people are shockingly bad at this. Practice. Dressing professionally can be a big issue, and again some people are shockingly bad. I won't go into it here, but we've had threads discussing this in the past. Support your fellow students - it really comes across to recruiters if your classmates don't to be around you because you're an a-hole. Learn to use proper grammar in thank you notes. Check yourself for bad breath before stepping into a situation where everyone is packed in tightly. There's a bunch of other stuff, but you get the picture; and some people really kill themselves here.
3) Prior IB experience. You either got it or you don't, but this definitely helps, and for some firms it helps a lot.
4) GMAT score. It's crystal clear that some banks really value this number. There's no need to complain about it or try to argue about it; that's just the way it is. A big score can get you put on closed list events (not if you're a jackass though) if you are borderline or if you haven't been able to get your name out. It catches their attention and they'll take the time to try to learn more about you. For the big IBs, I'd say 700 is baseline (anything lower than that and you might have some explaining to do), 730 is in the ballpark and 760+ will help. Once again, this varies a lot by bank, and certainly varies by schools as well (recruiters probably do not care about GMAT at Harvard, etc.).
5. Undergraduate school. Generally speaking, I think recruiters view everyone at a given school more or less equally. But, there are a few big name schools that still stand out. Having Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, perhaps some other Ivies and perhaps a few other schools can give you a small edge. It really is a small edge, and it really is just a few schools. Another thing that can help is if you can make a connection with recruiters through college athletics. I'm lucky in that UCLA and Michigan are both big name sports schools, and from time to time you'll encounter people where this gives a small edge.
So, that's what I have off the top of my head. If you're serious about a top IB or consulting job, it makes all the difference in the world to be at a core school. After that, practice your schmoozing (and I do mean practice, a lot, like every week between now and when you start school next year). The GMAT score is a factor, and for some firms it can be a big factor, but I think in almost all cases #1 and #2 are more important.
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07 Dec 2007, 09:29
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