Canadian MBA choices

Question

Ok am still waiting for LBS interview and final decision, meantime must put my deposit down on the Canadian MBAs that I applied to and got accepted in: Rotman/Ivey/Schulich. I am interested in entrepreneurship and international business. Any ideas? Help??????/

Paul · Answer

For your field of interest, I would suggest you Ivey although LBS is also very appealing. If you like the international aspect, think LBS.

tareks · Answer

LBS in my number one choice by a long shot. However, must play it safe thats why am putting a deposit down. So u think Ivey should be my pick. What about all the rumors about Ivey going down the drain the past few years and Shulich leading the pack?

Paul · Answer

Rankings is one thing. Fit is another. I believe that the experience you will have with the case-based approach will be unique and give you an edge as an entrepreneur. Furthermore, even though IVEY has dropped in ranking in the last few years, it still undoubtedly is one of the best Canadian schools. I attended one of its class visit through first class and I was really impressed. I would have told you to visit the school and see for yourself for the "fit" component but guess it's too late by now. I would stand firm in my suggestion for you to pick IVEY although you should indeed go ahead with the LBS interview. 

In my opinion, once you get an interview at LBS, it is clearly a good sign and you should really get an answer shortly after it. Let us know how it all ends up.

tareks · Answer

Thanks Paul. Yea, I should have visited while I was still in TO. Am few thousand miles away now on business. The reason am leaning towards Rotman and UofT is the branding of UofT and the fact that being in Toronto, the 3rd largest financial city in N.America is very helpful. University of Toronto and McGill retain high branda awarness throughout the world, eventhough McGill's MBA doesnt belong in Canada's top. 

 What impressed you most about the classes at IVEY? What about recruiters?? I heard from several ppl and not rankings that Rotman is attacting more companies and Schulich follows. I must decide in few days so your help is greastly appreciated.

Tarek

Paul · Answer

First, you have to check the individual job report for each school.

Rotman: https://www.rotman.utoronto.ca/career/stats.pdf
key highlights 2004: 87% obtained jobs within 3 months of graduation (86% reporting rate) and average salary was 83k(I strongly believe this figure to be in US dollars)

IVEY: https://www.ivey.ca/recruiter/Reports/MB ... manent.htm
key highlights 2004: 76% obtained jobs within 3 months of graduation (96% reporting rate) and average salary was 81.5k(I strongly believe this figure to be in US dollars)

I could not find the employment report for York though.

In the morning of my class visit at IVEY, I was provided with a case and given an hour to read it. Right after, we were ushered to the class where the case was being discussed and there were some important guess speakers which made the class very interactive and lively. I mean, from a finance standpoint, those conversations might be beyond our number crunching abilities, but for someone looking to go into entrepreneurship/general management, IVEY is key. It will give you the global picture of how a firm operate and hands on experience to cases where there are no perfect answers.

tareks · Answer

Thanks Paul. I have already gone thru this process, even evaluated faculty, research, rankings. Its too close to call man, thats why am stuck for now. The TO factor is quite important as successful MBAs these days tend to come from larger cities due to access to companies, speakers etc...Its a very tough choice to make

kdog3490 · Answer

I am going to Rotman this September. Did not apply to Ivey or the US schools, even though I am competitive for the US Top 10.

It is a close call, but the tie-breaker for me was choosing the city I wanted to spend the next two years of my life. If you want to remain in Canada post-MBA, you can't go wrong here.

Paul · Answer

I would agree with kdog though that Rotman has the location advantage. I think there is much more to do if you lived in TO than in London, ON.

tareks · Answer

thats it. Living in TO allows access to companies, seminars, workshops, that is missing in London. Again, I have heard again and again that Ivey has replaced the dean Bombardier two years ago and they have been shooting down since then. A dean represents a vision, and Ivey might be missing that right now even though their case study method is solid. Dean Roger Martin really impressed me.

Paul- can u check around with your colleagues on this issue. My final decision has to be made by Friday in time for the deposit deadline.

Thanks a lot.

Kdog- u from TO? I might be staying post MBA but i want the option of going global also, thats why LBS continues to be my first choice by a long shot- Paul, might see you there buddy

kdog3490 · Answer

I am based in Toronto and happen to know MBA grads from Ivey/Rotman/Queens.

LBS is the hands-down winner if you're looking for a brand leader and international exposure. But I think it's important to consider where you want to work post-grad - if it is in Canada, than an MBA from LBS (or any other school not named H/S/W) will not be viewed much differently than one from Rotman/Ivey and will have a longer return on investment due to higher costs. You'll also have a much tougher time working the Canadian job market from across the pond, and will likely need to rely on your own network. IMHO, 5 years down the road, recruiters will be far more interested in what you've done in your post-MBA career than what school you attended. And if you pursue the entrepreneurship route, you'll want your contacts to be established in the region where you plan on doing business (and not just names out of an alumni phonebook).

I think the reputations of Rotman/Ivey are misleading - Rotman is much more than just a "Finance" school and does well in many other sectors, just as Ivey grads can excel in Finance and not just as MCs. In the end, it's a wash. 90+% case (Ivey) vs. 60/40% lecture/case is a personal preference based on your learning style. Keep in mind that Rotman also has the Intergrative Management Curriculum in 2nd year which is much more interactive than any case study could be. Personally, I think Dean Martin has done an incredible job with Rotman since joining in 1998, and it continues to innovate and improve in the rankings, while Ivey remains rather stagnant. I would not be surprised if Rotman becomes an elite school in the next 7 - 10 years. And that's why I chose it.

tareks · Answer

I want to have more open choices post grad than working in GTA. While I love Toronto as a city, I am global by nature and i have family ties and business partners within Europe and Middle East. In that regard LBS is unrivalled. Just to give you an example, am travelling thru Egypt now and LBS managed to find an ambassador right here to conduct my interview. The lady is the VP of Citigroup Egypt and North Africa. Hows that for incentive. 

Just curious what are grads from Ivey saying? I totally agree what Rotman is much more energetic and has more momentum these days. However, Ivey is still scoring high in MBA competitions, has a great social responsibility program, and has more options for exchange programs. I am leaning more towards Rotman but must be 100% sure. What about Shulich, did you ever consider?

Paul · Answer

Indeed, for international brand recognition, LBS is the way to go. LBS scheduled me an interview with a VP IB ('97 grad) in Montreal. Quite impressive.

For Canadian MBAs, it boils down to deciding whether the type of teaching is more important than the ranking. I think these are the two aspects that are being heavily weighted in your mind right now. In my opinion, you seem to very much give more importance to ranking and general reputation, along with location advantage, so you should pick Rotman. Seriously, after reading about what happened the IVEY's dean and how Rotman's dean pulled the school's reputation northward, I am myself very drawn to UofT.

Hjort · Answer

I think that it is important to avoid the "horse race" aspect of rankings. Scholastic reputations generally take several years to change and even then it if difficult to determine if they really have changed much at all. The major Canadian MBA programs have similar reputations- one could engage in a debate over which is ascending the most but the utility of such an inquiry eludes me. As others have mentioned, I would place more emphasis on the fit of the program including location and teaching styles. 

It is interesting that many Canadians seem to underestimate the international reputations of schools in Canada. These schools are most certainly not consolation prizes for students who plan to stay local. Indeed, I have urged a number of international and US students to give serious consideration to the top Canadian schools.

Hjort · Answer

Note that the CEO Production Thread contains a number of executives of Canadian firms.

tareks · Answer

Exactly. I have a best friend who is going to attend MBA next year. His sister and brother in law are HBS grads. Well when I was asking them about the Canadian choices, they always respond "well for Canada, Ivey is...." and they are pushing my friend to go for US even though he wants to use his MBA to start an immigration procedure to Canada. Its the American attitude that pisses me off. Theres teh US and everything else, including Canada is second class. We need to change that once for all. 

So are we all agreed for Rotman here vs Ivey given the location, dean, Integrativce Thinking approach? I have till monday to finalize my decision and would appreciate as many points of view as possible.

Hjort · Answer

I agree that Toronto is an excellent choice.

tareks · Answer

just had my LBS interview and it went quite well. Fingers crossed. Meantime I must send my papers and put my deposit down tomorrow on a Canadian choice (to assure a spot just in case). While Rotman seems like a great choice with location, and new innovations am afraid to let Ivey go. Its really way to close to call. anyone else have any ideas?

Paul · Answer

Your friends' perception might be based on old ranking of IVEY and they might not be aware of the slipping in IVEY's ranking. I mean all what you have been saying is in favor of Rotman and although I first recommended IVEY, I do see your point in picking Rotman. I also agree with you with the US-centric aspect of MBAs but it also has to do with the strong ties US schools have with Corporate America which we all know, include the biggest and most prestigious firms in the world. Unless there is a decline in the US hegemony, I do not see any decline in the predominance of top US B-schools.
As for LBS, you should get an answer by friday. Good luck and wish to see you there.

tareks · Answer

i dont need to worry about the Canadian choices anymore. I have been accepted into LBS and i will be attending this school beginning in September. Thanks to Paul and everyone's support and advice on this board.

See you in london

Canadian MBA choices

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