Lawyers and B-School

1. There are not so many lawyers out there. It can be unique although falling into the basket of liberal arts/consultants guys. It is not a 'switching' thing that they look at but the proof that "you are not running from law" (see Montauk's book).

2. I have heard that Juris Doctor/ Joint Degree helps, especially in IB.

3. The law school program is one of the most rigorous programs on the planet. So if you have good GPA from a law school then it might be a proof to the adcoms that you will catch up with the rigorous b-school schedule. I remember, the Wharton adcom told me that lawyer do really well at their program

PM me if you want to ask smth more specific. Btw, I also am a lawyer.

As mentioned, I have a JD and I'm at Darden. Here's what I've noticed.

1. A law degree and law firm experience is not unique as there are definitely JDs in every class (we have 3 this year and a JD/MBA). As far as how it is viewed by adcoms, specifics are more important than generalizations. If you have a JD from a lower ranked school and are applying to a top business school, the JD will have little (and possibly negative) impact on your application. If you have a top 0 JD and are applying to a top 25 business school, it will likely be viewed as a positive, potentially a major factor. Schools are concerned about their brand. Stanford and Harvard business schools view JDs from schools ranked below the top 10 (maybe top 5 or top 3) as diluting their brand. Lower ranked schools look at degrees from Penn or Georgetown law schools as big pluses. The same idea applies to law firm work experience. Some law firms are among the most difficult places around to land jobs at, and people who are able to secure these jobs and thrive are viewed very favorably. There are maybe 10 or 15 firms that elite and ultra-elite schools embrace; the hundreds of other firms, not so much. So if you have a JD from XYZ State U (non-elite), I wouldn't count on it help much with your ultra-elite application, and in some cases it could hurt, a lot.

2. A JD and firm experience can help in recruiting, but again, specifics are key. The big investment banks are familiar with the dozen or so big firm that they deal with regularly. If you're a capital markets or finance lawyer with one of the big firms in New York, you'll do well with IB recruiting. If you are with one of the elite litigation firms, consulting firms will love you. If you're a personal injury lawyer or with some unknown firm in Kansas City, you're not going to have much street cred with recruiters.

3. From an academic standpoint, law school was probably a little tougher, but business school requires better time management. This is coming from an English major though. If your verbal skills are less than top notch, law school could prove to be a lot more difficult. Business school seems to abound with people with great quantitative skills, but if you have a hard time with math business school will be no picnic. It's just that, there aren't that many people that suck at math who are at business school.

Pelihu,
Please excuse some personal curiosity on my part but, If you have the time, could you perhaps expand a bit on the ways they skew. I suppose I am really curious if one is more amenable to a particular type of learner.
Help!

Hmm, that's not an easy question to answer. Let me give it a shot.

Quantitative skills are very useful at business school, but we're not really talking about serious math skills (certain electives might actually call for higher math skills, but that's unusual). It's more important to be comfortable with numbers, manipulating them, changing fractions and percents, teasing out trends and things like that; the sort of stuff they test you on in the GMAT. It's my opinion (just my opinion) that most people graduating from good college can learn these skills. Some people, like engineers, scientists, economists, etc., are already comfortable with these skills based on their experience, but given the right preparation I believe that most people can learn the required skills. It's simply not that complex or high level. The real challenge in business school are balancing the demands on your time, such as social and outreach activities, group learning, recruiting events, etc. I'm pretty confident that even the people I used to know as an English major and in law school could be taught the necessary math skills in pretty short order. A 6-12 month review course would be more that sufficient.

Law school, on the other hand, calls for a set of skills that some people cannot reach no matter how hard they try (I'm talking about top law schools, which offer a challenging theoretical curriculum as opposed to many schools that are nothing more than a review of local rules and for the bar exam). Again, this is just my opinion, but unlike the math skills required by business school, some people will never be able to develop the logic and reasoning skills required for law school. For comparison, the LSAT also has RC and CR sections, but they are much harder. I finished the GMAT verbal section with 20+ minutes to spare and scored 51V. If I recall, some 90-95% of test-takers do not complete every question on the LSAT (without just filling in answers). You must read really fast, and draw logical conclusions immediately. There's not time to break down the logic and re-read questions; and even at breakneck pace most people won't finish anyways. This translates directly to law school, where you will tackle complex cases that build a complex framework of logical resolutions. If you can't break down the dozens of logical points to reach the end of each case, there's no way to do well with the material.

so, based on my experience, I think pretty much everyone can learn the math skills required to succeed in business school, but a pretty substantial portion of folks can't learn the skills necessary for law school (top schools) no matter how hard they work at it. This isn't a comparison of math a verbal skills. There's definitely math out there that the vast majority of people will never be able to understand no matter how hard they try; it's just that business school doesn't require those skills (for the most part). If you can just get comfortable with manipulating fractions, you've pretty much got it. On the other hand, law school isn't just about verbal skills. It's more than just being able to read quickly. Learning to draw logical conclusions and working through logic games and challenges is essential, and at the top schools you must be able to really quickly. There's just too much material to cover. I think that's why LSAT is a bigger part of admissions than the GMAT is. People who struggle on the GMAT might still be able to succeed in business school, but people who struggle on the LSAT are dead meat in law school. So anyone who has struggled to get to the 90th or 99th percentile on the GMAT verbal, imagine 50% more material per section, more complicated thought processes, and competition from a much more logically/verbally oriented pool of talent and you have the LSAT.

Hi Pelihu,
Thanks for the (as usual) cogent summation. I take heart from your assertion that an English major can survive Bschool math.

Your point about the comparative difficulty is interesting. Obviously the logic games differ greatly from anything presented on the GMAT but the RC and CR questions that I have seen (e.g., Princeton study material) did not strike me as fundamentally more difficult. However, your point about the # of folks who finish the actual test within the time frame is a good one. Additionally, I suspect that a majority of LSAT takers are likely to excel in CR/RC whereas these two areas are usually the trailing field for GMAT takers (as evidence by the usual quant / verbal score splits). You have piqued my curiosity. I am going to throw down the 8 bucks and see what an actual LSAT looks like.

Thanks again.

Help!

I believe law school was way more difficult academically. Business school doesn't require nearly as much homework, research, etc. I know many classmates from business school who barely showed up to class. Many schools don't even use traditional grading scales. If you succeed academically in law school, you should be fine in business school.

Hi, posting here because my profile is similar.

Was wondering if its possible to impress top B-school (H/S/W) admissions as a corporate lawyer (WE at matriculation will be 4 years at a quality M&A/capital markets law firm) from India with a law degree from the best Indian law school? Have clerking experience, law review and leadership roles in law school and also took a certificate course at Wharton during my study-abroad at Penn. I haven't taken the GMAT yet, but assuming I get a 720+ score? I'm happy with the exposure in my current role and though I'm looking to transition to IB/consulting post-MBA, I wouldn't want to attempt that jump pre-MBA. Thanks!

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