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Re: Should I Retake the GMAT [#permalink]
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hmmm, btw let us tell abt ur profile n ur 1st attempt??
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This is one of the most incredibly thoroughly awesome posts you could ever ask for. You deserve a cookie, souvik101990!

And if anybody wants to read even more Q&A's featuring applicants who weren't sure whether to retake the GMAT or not, there are about 80 stories crammed into the comments on this page, with personal advice offered to each of them. Some of the posts are a little bit on the old side, but you'll get the idea.

And as always, I really wish that this part wasn't true:

Quote:
You are an Indian IT Male
You are doomed. Blame your parents.

:(
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Re: Should I Retake the GMAT [#permalink]
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souvik101990 wrote:

Should I Retake the GMAT



[textarea]
[list][*] You are from an overrepresented applicant pool
The GMAT score for overrepresented applicant pool tends to be higher on average. WHY? Probably because with most career trajectory and undergrad performance largely similar, the GMAT can act as a great differentiator. To support this hypothesis, I analyzed the GMAT Club app tracker (post if you want me to add charts), and found less than 5% of Indian applicants, a massive pool, have a GMAT that is less than 760. While that is incredibly discouraging for most people, it also tells you how competitive this b school admission season really was.

[/quote]

I have a 760 on the GMAT Q50/V41/IR7/AWA6 and I think I have potential to reach 780 but I don't think there is any reason to put in the extra efforts. If what you are stating here is true then I guess I should go for it, more so because a high GMAT will also play a role in the scholarship part. Would you mind letting us know the sample size as well? I mean 95% of what figure has 760 or more?

Originally posted by gmat2k17 on 31 Jan 2017, 11:04.
Last edited by gmat2k17 on 11 Apr 2017, 17:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Should I Retake the GMAT [#permalink]
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souvik101990 - Could you please reply to the above query?
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Re: Should I Retake the GMAT [#permalink]
Great post, but could you talk about how "mutliple retakes" are perceived?
When is it not ok to retake? After the 4th attempt?
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Dina98, I don't think that you need to worry about that at all. It's become incredibly common for applicants to take the test five or more times, and I don't think that it bothers MBA programs at all.

Wild story: a whole bunch of years ago, I started tutoring somebody after her EIGHTH attempt at the test. No joke: she literally took me out to dinner just to beg me to tutor her. I said yes, and made her promise that she'd never take the test ever again if she actually got a 700. She did get the 700 (on her ninth attempt!!), and got into Columbia. So it apparently didn't bother Columbia at all that she'd taken it nine freaking times.

Of course, you can only take the GMAT a maximum of eight times now, and only five times in any 12-month period. But don't worry about MBA programs' perceptions of your retakes -- they only care about your best score.
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Re: Should I Retake the GMAT [#permalink]
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Pretty detailed article!!! This question is sometimes asked in the application as well, so some your points will help people answer that and also evaluate their decision to re-take. Did you take the test again?
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Re: Should I Retake the GMAT [#permalink]
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GMATNinja wrote:
Dina98, I don't think that you need to worry about that at all. It's become incredibly common for applicants to take the test five or more times, and I don't think that it bothers MBA programs at all.

Wild story: a whole bunch of years ago, I started tutoring somebody after her EIGHTH attempt at the test. No joke: she literally took me out to dinner just to beg me to tutor her. I said yes, and made her promise that she'd never take the test ever again if she actually got a 700. She did get the 700 (on her ninth attempt!!), and got into Columbia. So it apparently didn't bother Columbia at all that she'd taken it nine freaking times.

Of course, you can only take the GMAT a maximum of eight times now, and only five times in any 12-month period. But don't worry about MBA programs' perceptions of your retakes -- they only care about your best score.


Hey GMATNinja,

Any advice you would like to enhance the SC skills. I am good in CR and RC but SC is pulling me down. I am thinking of re-taking the GMAT to improve my score by another 20 points and enhance my V41 to V46.
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Re: Should I Retake the GMAT [#permalink]
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With a 760, I'm not sure that I would bother retaking, gmat2k17. And congratulations on that score! :-D

In all seriousness, I'm not sure how much another 20 points would buy you in the admissions process. I just can't imagine that there's a school that would reject you with a 760, but accept you with a 780. Sure, you can get rejected from top schools for pretty much no reason these days -- it's a rough, rough world out there at the top schools. But 20 points at your end of the scale is really unlikely to matter. (And if you had a 680, we'd obviously be having a different conversation. Twenty points would definitely matter in that case!)

I suppose you could argue for retaking if you're interested in applying to investment banks or consulting firms, since they're often awed by big, shiny numbers. But if not, go throw yourself a big party and start writing some epic admissions essays.

And if you're determined to retake the test anyway, let me know, and we can start another thread on your situation in the verbal forum. :)
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Re: Should I Retake the GMAT [#permalink]
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GMATNinja wrote:
With a 760, I'm not sure that I would bother retaking, gmat2k17. And congratulations on that score! :-D

In all seriousness, I'm not sure how much another 20 points would buy you in the admissions process. I just can't imagine that there's a school that would reject you with a 760, but accept you with a 780. Sure, you can get rejected from top schools for pretty much no reason these days -- it's a rough, rough world out there at the top schools. But 20 points at your end of the scale is really unlikely to matter. (And if you had a 680, we'd obviously be having a different conversation. Twenty points would definitely matter in that case!)

I suppose you could argue for retaking if you're interested in applying to investment banks or consulting firms, since they're often awed by big, shiny numbers. But if not, go throw yourself a big party and start writing some epic admissions essays.

And if you're determined to retake the test anyway, let me know, and we can start another thread on your situation in the verbal forum. :)


GMATNinja - I am still considering re-taking. Once I am done with my May deadline of Insead, I will have three months until the next deadline. I am planning to take a month out of those for the re-attempt. I have couple of reasons for re-taking:

1. Indian male engineer bucket - I belong to that group and almost any serious candidate from this group has a 760 on the GMAT. While a 760 is way too common in any forum, a 780 is much more rare.

2. On app-trackers on gmatclub.com, I have seen a lot of rejections of Indian 760s and even 770s. Rejections of 780s is not that common. I have a 6.9/10 from a top 20 engineering school (non-IIT) in India. My lower than school's average GPA can be offset with a 780 in a better sense than by a 760 (added to the fact that almost all serious Indian candidates have a 760 or above, in addition to their better GPAs).

3. Scholarships - it is no secret that higher GMATs help in scholarships. If a lot of students have a 760/770, there wouldn't be a chance for me to get that coveted scholarship on the basis of GMAT.

4. Consulting and IBs - I will be 29 this year and 30 by matriculation. By the time I graduate I would be 32, definitely not a desired age group for Consulting and IB firms. I already have a negative; I want to give them a positive.

5. I didn't give my 100% to the GMAT; I did only one OG (2015), and I think with more practice, including learning idioms, my SC skills may improve. SC and timing on quant is the only roadblock between me and a 780. I analyzed my ESR and figured that I did only two wrong questions on Quant and that lead to a Q50 - I think I can overcome that. Since, the individual sections aren't adaptive, I could only manage a 91% on CR and RC with a 85% on SC.

What's your opinion on the reasons stated above?

Another not so relevant and maybe a stupid reason as well is: I believe a couple of years down the line the 760 would become 98%, the way 750 became. I would want to retain a score of 99%. Something that bb can relate to.
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I was worried that you might say some of that. I still doubt that the extra 20 points will make a big difference, but I suppose that if I were in your situation, I wouldn't want to take any risks. I'd fight for every last point, too.

Small sample size here, but one thing I have noticed is that the Indian male engineers who manage to do a GREAT job flashing some personality in their applications tend to punch above their weight during the admissions process. In other words: awesome, interesting, lively, creative essays -- and great interviews and all of that -- will probably do more for your chances of admission than those extra 20 points.

But again: yeah, you've convinced me that it's worth retaking in your situation. Indian male engineers are sooooo cursed in this process. Makes me sad. I guess it's just the way things are (supply and demand, right?), and I probably complain about it more than any Indian male engineer I've ever met -- but it still feels unfair, somehow.

I'll start a thread in the SC forum in your honor later this week, gmat2k17. I have a few thoughts on how you might approach the next step of the SC process, and I'll try to make it a more general thread that might help some others, too. Stay tuned!
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GMATNinja
It indeed is highly unfair. If I had extravagant money, I'd have bought the citizenship by investment of an unknown country to game this unfair system.

Thanks in advance. Eagerly awaiting your thoughts.
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Re: Should I Retake the GMAT [#permalink]
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Thank you for such a helpful post!

I'm currently preparing for a retake and I will certainly implement some of these strategies into my studies.
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Re: Should I Retake the GMAT [#permalink]
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Hi GMATNinja and souvik101990,

I took my GMAT today and got 730 V 41 (94 percentile) and Q 49 (75 percentile). Is the score unbalanced? As mentioned in the post that Quant score has to be at least 80 percentile. I am planning to apply to NUS Singapore, ISB Hyderabad , NTU Singapore, HKU and EDHEC. Is my score sufficient to apply to these BSchools.
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onkargm wrote:
As mentioned in the post that Quant score has to be at least 80 percentile.
I could be wrong, but I don't think any school insists on (a minimum of) 80% in either quant or verbal. In fact, in quant such a requirement would leave you with exactly two viable scores: 50 and 51 :-)



gmat2k17 wrote:
I have a 760 on the GMAT Q50/V41/IR7/AWA6 and I think I have potential to reach 780 but I don't think there is any reason to put in the extra efforts. If what you are stating here is true then I guess I should go for it, more so because a high GMAT will also play a role in the scholarship part. Would you mind letting us know the sample size as well? I mean 95% of what figure has 760 or more?
Definitely not all Indian test takers/applicants. The average GMAT score for India is around 570-580 (exact figures are released periodically by the GMAC).
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onkargm wrote:
Hi GMATNinja and souvik101990,

I took my GMAT today and got 730 V 41 (94 percentile) and Q 49 (75 percentile). Is the score unbalanced? As mentioned in the post that Quant score has to be at least 80 percentile. I am planning to apply to NUS Singapore, ISB Hyderabad , NTU Singapore, HKU and EDHEC. Is my score sufficient to apply to these BSchools.

Congrats on the 730, onkargm!!

Back in the day, a lot of MBA programs did use the 80th percentile on both quant and verbal as a rough guideline for applicants. (If I remember correctly, Wharton and INSEAD had stated this somewhat publicly, but that was... I don't know, maybe 10 years ago? And I've lost a few brain cells in tragic bourbon accidents since then, so don't quote me on that.)

But the MBA world has changed pretty quickly: back in 2007, a 47 would have landed you in the 81st percentile on quant. Now, a 47Q would only get you into the 63rd percentile -- and you'd have to get a 50Q if you want to be above the 80th percentile.

Yikes.

In other words: the quant and verbal percentiles are a mess now, and the "80th-percentile rule" has been gone for a long time. A TON of people score at the upper end of the quant scale, but very very few do so on verbal -- so the quant and verbal percentiles don't mean much anymore. (More on percentiles and the 80th-percentile myth here) The phrase "balanced score" is totally subjective now: if you're in the 700 club, odds are good that your verbal percentile is higher than your quant percentile, unless you got a 51Q.

And in your case, onkargm? Nobody in their right minds would think that you're somehow "imbalanced" with a 49Q and 41V. I'm not terribly familiar with the current admissions habits at Asian MBA programs, so I don't know whether the 730 is considered competitive in your demographic -- I'll let somebody else weigh in on whether a higher composite would help you. But you definitely don't need to worry about "balance" at all.

Good luck with your applications!!
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Thanks for your detailed guidance GMATNinja.
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